The Great Product Debate: Industry Roundtable

What issues impact your product selection?

Keith Burrell, The Lawn Co. - "A big issue when we look at products is smell. Are [clients] going to know I’ve come into this property because the product smells? Are they shutting windows, running off the lawn, making neighbors nervous?"

Gary Clayton, All-Green - "Lack of odor is important for making applicators feel safe as well."

Gary Chamberlin, TruGreen-ChemLawn - "The reality is that if you smell something people think it’s bad. If you don’t smell it then it must be good."

Ken Wentland, Lied’s Landscape Design & Development - "You always hear ‘price is an issue,’ but for us, if the product works then price is never an issue."

Burrell - "Ease of handling is also a big issue in terms of packaging."

Jim Campanella, The Lawn Dawg - "Granular vs. liquid is also a big issue. Look at New York where liquid products are perceived of as being more dangerous for some reason. Plus, I think granular products yield greater productivity."

John Buechner, Lawn Doctor - "Drift is another issue in New York."

Clayton - "We’re trying to stop spraying products into the air for trees and shrubs. In New York, when you spray above 5 feet in the air you have to notify customers within 150 feet."

Burrell - "We also try to avoid anything that requires keeping the homeowner off the lawn until they’ve watered the product in. You can’t do those applications, although ‘stay off until dry’ works because that’s such a short window.

Gary LaScalea, GroGreen - "Personal protective equipment (PPE) requirements are important in Texas because of what requires coveralls, long sleeves and so on. The regulatory people are fining people big time in these areas, so we’re making some product changes because of that."

Chris Senske, Senske Lawn & Tree Care - "PPE is often the first thing we look at."

Tom Tolkacz, Swingle Tree & Lawn Care - "I would love to see more work on the odor issue. We’ve tried to use a lot of the masking products so from the general public and the technician standpoint the products don’t have that odor. But results and PPE still matter more than odor, so that wouldn’t impact our buying decision. I just think we could have less of a negative perception of the material if we eliminated the odor."

Buechner - "Often, that’s not in the hands of the manufacturer as much as it is the EPA in registration. A lot of similar products have different PPE requirements, and that can be a problem."

Chamberlin - "I see a lot of grandfathering going on with products that have been registered for a long time."

LaScalea - "It’s a burden to put guys out in long sleeves in 110-degree heat."

How are you dealing with the loss of products as they lose registrations?

There was a consensus among the group that pyrethroids are the best alternative to Dursban.

Wentland - "My concern down the road is that there isn’t an alternative, and I think we’re going to see some resistance, particularly with mites in the tree care side."

Tim Doppel, Atwood Lawns - "That’s especially true if you only have one class to use because then the insects aren’t exposed to anything new or different."

Clayton - "A lot of the entomologists I’ve talked to think that resistance in the outdoor landscape won’t be as big an issue. Even mixing within a class of pyrethroids will help. I don’t think we’re limited right now because we’re so limited. There will be core products, and we just need to use other products to interrupt the life cycle when necessary. There are few true miticides anyway, so mites are difficult."

Tolkacz - "We’ve made a major move to the injections. Control is exceeding prior levels with other application methods, but now we have the issue of soil contamination and whether or not we are going to be able to use that material three to five years from now. We’re doing fall applications for certain scale applications and we’re getting tremendous results. You have to get an understanding of the product and commit to it for more than one year."

Clayton - "These are messages we need to share with the public and teach them about the benefits of injections vs. spraying. Then we have to explain that the delivery systems change as well with new technologies."

Bill Hoopes, Scotts Lawn Service - "How many people monitor cholinesterase levels?"

LaScalea - "We do, largely because of the organophosphates." Again, the group generally agreed that they monitor cholinesterase levels because of organophosphates.

Mike Young, Lawn & Shrub - "One of the problems without Dursban is that some of the products are applied in such low levels that doing the conversions from a 100-gallon tank to a backpack sprayer is difficult to do. It would be nice if that was easier to do."

Wentland - "I agree, but I’ll take low-volume applications whenever possible."

LaScalea - "We’re looking a lot at mixing products together trying to get more residual, and then we want to put a rotation schedule in place to be careful of resistance."

Tolkacz - "With the pyrethroids, most people would agree that you don’t get the longevity of control that you would get with prior materials. The same is true with the knockdown. Clients don’t recognize or know that, but you and your field people have to understand what to expect in terms of the results after the application. People inspect, and if the insect isn’t knocked down they spray again and use more material."

Buechner - "We have to change our programs a little bit because we don’t have the residual any more. That’s difficult because this is all about timing and you can’t always hit the ideal window."

Has anyone identified who buys tree and shrub care?

Buechner - "Twenty percent of our lawn care customers buy it."

Tolkacz - "A great study would be why and how people buy tree and ornamental applications. The bulk of ours are from people more than 45 years old. Younger folks invest in the landscape and don’t see the value of a $500 to $1,000 investment each year in fertilization and inspection."

Wentland - "We went to our other divisions and told them to present the idea of tree and ornamental care up front. We wanted them to tell customers that these plants were taken care of in the nurseries, so the installation crews can get people to lead us right into a maintenance contract."

Clayton - "It appears these customers are the ones who buy tree and shrub care because they have enough disposable income.

"The other problem is that we have people with less horticultural knowledge going out there to sell these services to our clients. When we can spend more time with our people and invest in them, we’ll get more results in these areas. These people don’t want the homeowner to see that they don’t know what they’re talking about, so they avoid these situations. I think everyone is doing 20 to 25 percent of their total sales in tree and shrub if they’re a genuine lawn care company. I really think that market is there if we can get there - and our renewal on that market is probably higher."

LaScalea - "I think the tree and ornamental market is more advanced in the South. I would say 85 percent of our lawn customers have tree and shrub care, and every one of our trucks are converted to do both so the technicians don’t have to call someone else. That’s a huge market."

Chamberlin - "The southern markets are stronger because they have more insect and disease incidence."

Burrell - "Tree and shrub care can be more profitable as long as you have enough work volume per guy to keep the technician busy all year."

LaScalea - "The cost of product is also much lower and you use less product, so it’s much more profitable for us. We’ve integrated it all with our technicians to the point that tree and shrub is on our estimate sheets."

Tolkacz - "We’re finding that the commercial market is starting to better appreciate the value of trees. The best thing for us is when they lose five new Lindens in the first three years. That helps them recognize how a strong plant health care program helps them avoid losses."

Where do you buy your products?

Sam Lang, Fairway Green - "We’ve done some buying off of the Internet. You bid on some products and some are priced out. For smaller companies, this will be difficult because they wire transfer the funds and you don’t get any terms. We’re really looking at that more and more, especially for large purchases in the spring, because that can help us save 15 to 20 percent."

Senske - "Most of our pesticide purchases are through distributors, and the fertilizer comes through manufacturers."

Jack Robertson, Robertson Lawn Care - "We buy almost everything through distributors with convenient location. We used to buy fertilizer direct but the distributor met the price."

Senske - "What matters to us is being able to get ‘almost just in time’ delivery."

Doppel - "I stopped dealing with a distributor with better price because they couldn’t get us the products."

Campanella - "What we’re looking for is ordering product on Monday and getting it on Wednesday. Terms are also important so I don’t have to pay for my preemergent product until July. That helps keep us out of our line of credit and keep the business running on its own."

Tolkacz - "We buy the bulk of our product through local distributors, but storage and delivery are real challenges for our distributors. We want just-in-time or we order X number of tons and tell them when we want it. These distributors may want us to take two truckloads and store it, but we can’t do that. I’ll pay more for them to hold it for me.

"The question I have is not just about any one distributor, but I get frustrated with a lack of attention being paid to who they’re selling to and whether or not you’re a licensed applicator. They’re selling product to unlicensed applicators who just drive through the shop and load up their truck. I like our distributors to require a license on file. To an extent, that’s a reason why we won’t buy from someone - if they’re promoting the application of product by unlicensed applicators. These people need to be licensed, and distributors can help them get licensed. Then we’ll deflect more negative issues."

Burrell - "You have to build a good relationship with distributors. We look to get a lot of training from the distributors or the manufacturers. It really helps our crews so they don’t have to listen to our managers give more instructions."

Robertson - "I see our distributor as a partner in our business. I buy a lot from them, and I expect a lot from them. So I expect to receive anything they can supply to us as far as education, and we certainly expect the product to be right and only take a phone call to fix when it’s not right."

Clayton - "We’ve had to change as distribution has changed. Now we’re in a situation where I see the distributors as observation people to let us know what they see going on in a market. Are the mole crickets running yet, and so on."

Tolkacz - "I also want the distributor to get out in the field with me and see the problems we’re dealing with so they can see the results of what they’re selling. We toured 15 properties in one day, focusing on weed control properties that were three to five weeks old. We’ve gotten special use permits in Colorado for materials because of those visits, and that has been tremendous for us."

Campanella - "I want manufacturers to tell me what’s coming out and help me customize the products for my needs."

Tolkacz - "Knowing new products are coming to the market and participating in testing is excellent. Sometimes the distributors get caught up in the dilemma of trying to bring a product to market first."

LaScalea - "Manufacturers are interesting, as well, because a lot of them are visible and share information with us, and there are others you don’t hear anything from."

Robertson - "If two products are equal and you have that support and relationship, that’s important. I want someone who stands behind my business. If they won’t stand behind us, I won’t buy from them."

Wentland - "A big test is how they respond when you have a problem with one of their products and you call them. I want help instead of being asked what I could’ve done wrong to screw up the application."